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UK Accounting Certifications vs US Accounting Certifications | From the Desk of Asif Nawaz…

This article briefly discusses the primary difference between the UK and US Accounting Certifications. There is a huge difference in the way in which the two countries offer professional accounting education and certifications, and professional financ…

Dear,

I am 100% agree with you. Americans are more focusd, as they have different certifications for different types of activities in business world. Like
CPA – External Audit & Financial Reporting
CIA – Internal Audit
EA – Taxation Services
CISA – IS Audits
CMA – Management Accoutning
CFA – Financial & Capital Markets

Other certifications around the world have same problems as the UK certifications have.

Comments and criticism will be highly appreciated.

Best Regards,
Ali

Hi. I am wondering if you could offer some advice on what certification to get. I am a recent graduate of economics from a US university, and I have just moved to the UK. I have been looking for a job in management consulting and finance sector, but with the economy today, It isn’t going so well. I thought i would use the down time to pick up some extra qualifications, perhaps in accounting. I am uncertain what type of accounting I am looking to do, or even if accounting is in the cards at all. However, as general accounting skills are useful in any business, i thought it could give me an edge in applications. The problem is, while I plan on living in the UK for the next 5 years or so, I may move back to the US, or even Hong Kong at some point (I have citizenship in all 3). What certification would give me the most international recognition? Thanks a lot!

Julie,

Without any question, the certification that would give you the most recognition is the CPA. Even in the UK, US GAAP and SOX are so important, and the CPA is the only certification, that per the international perspective, gives you all the skillset.

Since you are a multicountry citizen, I suggest you take full advantage of the opportunity to sit for the CPA exams. You can take courses etc. in the UK, but you must fly to the US for the exam. However, you may have trouble with an economics degree, since the AICPA is pretty tight on regulations, are the states. Colorado is probably the most lenient state, so I’d check if they will admit a CPA license with an economics degree.

If you want sit for a certification in the UK, that gives you a better business perspective and doesn’t focus on financial accounting per se, I suggest CIMA. I think the CMA in the US is a far more practical exam than the CIMA qualification in the UK, but it unjustifiably has little international recognition outside the US, especially within the UK market.

If you want the equivalent of the CPA abroad, you probably need to look at the CA Program offered by the ICAEW. These are the only 2 certifications, the CPA and the CA, which mean anything in the public accounting world. For business related accounting, I’d still suggest CIMA, if your focus is not the US. Bare in mind that the CMA qualification in the US expects you to have an accounting degree, so the coursework is prepared accordingly. However, UK accounting certifications are aimed at NON Accounting majors, so they start with the basics, which may actually be better suited to someone like yourself who doesn’t have an accounting degree.

On a whole different level, the UK sucks compared to the US: business-wise, job-wise, education wise and quality of life wise.

Hello Asif and Ali Nawaz,
I am a US certified CPA, been working as a CPA in USA for the last 2 years. I want to move to Pakistan and want to know if my US CPA license will actually help me in landing a job in Islamabad/Lahore or other metropolitan cities in Pakistan.
Any advice/help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Usman.

Usman,

It may serve you good in business. People are certainly impressed by US qualifications, but from a professional standpoint, the ICAP (Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan) does not recognize the CPA as an equivalent or exemption qualifying certification. That certainly can’t be a good thing.

I would try Dubai, Qatar or Kuwait instead.

Hey,

Was wondering if anyone could give me some advice about course of action.

I am about to receive a bachelors in Business at US university with emphasis on accounting. I have enough econ and accounting units to go for Pathway 2 and have a job offer with one of the big 4 for September. Sounds like a good start right? Only problem is I am starting to consider of moving to UK to be with my fiance that I met when studying in Scotland. We are not in a hurry to make any decisions and still figuring it out but I really like UK and wouldn’t mind moving at all. What should I do?

Hey,

I am currently an accounting student at a US university. I am planning on becoming a CPA when I am done. If I wanted to move to the UK are their any additional certifications I would need to be an accountant there?

There is a market for CPAs here because ultimately most successful business are US owned and need to be, at least, US GAAP if not SOX compliant.

But here is my advice. Don’t move to the UK. It’s third world country. The HMRC (equivalent of IRS) sucks over here. Terrible service, total mis and lack of information. All information is ambiguous and not clearly explained, ultimately with a view to extorting money.

Corporate culture is the same.

To answer your question. A CPA here won’t necessarily get you an accounting role. It will get you specialist roles dealing with US GAAP, but to get equivalent respect of the rest of the rather incompetent accounting community in the UK, you’ll need the Chartered Accountancy certification from the ICAEW.

i do not belive in what he has been saying about some uk qualification…i am a CPA and an ACCA.. TO BE HONEST A CPA can not in any where measure to an ACCA. I AM VESE WITH BOTH SYSTEMS VERY WELL…

I left the UK last year and moved to the US, I have completed the management level of CIMA, and studied the Strategic Levels but not passed the exams.

I am hoping to become CPA qualified in the US, does anyone know if management level CIMA and AAT qualification is enough to qualify me to take the exams?

Also, would I be better off doing IMA, I prefer to work as a Financial Analyst.

If anyone can advise also if CPA or IMA qualification is better recognised back in the UK, as I won’t be living in the US permanently and don’t want to have to pick CIMA back up when I return.

Nicola,

First of all, congrats on making your way over to the best country in the world.

The answer to taking the CPA exam is, it depends. You have to meet the AICPA’s experience requirement before you can sit for the exams. That requirement is a university degree with 150 or equivalent hours of credit with 30+ credits in accounting subjects, which I don’t think any UK universities do. If you have that, you can sit for the exam, but I don’t think you’re eligible to apply for a license until you have 3 years of experience.

The CMA or CFM certification from the IMA is far more relevant for CIMA students in the UK. But bare in mind that in the UK neither the CPA nor the the CMA or CFM is so-called recognized for its value. You’ll have to go through the rut of sitting for the exams in the UK if you get any of the US certifications.

I’ve let my IMA membership lapse this year, and I spoke with the administration asking them why the CMA wasn’t recognized over here in the UK and we have to go through the shame to accounting that CIMA is. But alas, it’s a political matter.

You’ll have to pick up CIMA again if you come to the UK. If you live in the US, the CMA and CFM are great for industry. Outside the US, not so much, primarily because CIMA has a larger marketing budget than the IMA does.

Thanks for the reply. I certainly qualify on the experience front, I’ve worked in Finance for the past 15 years. I didn’t go to University though, went straight into work from high school and studied AAT and CIMA while working full time.

I certainly don’t fancy starting all over again with having to get a university degree.

That may be a problem for the CPA and CMA certifications.

I’d continue with CIMA if I was you, especially since you plan on coming back to the UK.

hi zafar here tell me about cpa eligibility i m from pakistan and right now i m doing cima certificate level>> my mail id is zafarcma@hotmail.com plz and with cima which is good mba in banking and finance or ma economics i like the first one i am graduate 14 year of study..

Zafar, you’re eligible to sit for the exam as long as you have a US AACSB accredited university degree or equivalent. However, you can only sit for the exam in the US and you will need to practice under an existing CPA to get licensed. Fat chance in Pakistan.

Either is okay with CIMA, it just depends on what you want to do. I’d personally say MBA.

i have bachelor degree in financial and commercial studies from egypt
how can i get equiavlent for my cerificate
mahmod

I am a CIMA student in the UK, and will soon have completed the managerial papers.

I am due to move to the US (for family reasons) within the next year. I have about a year’s work experience in accountancy, so even if I completed the exams, I wouldn’t be able to complete the 3 year work experience requirement.

What advice do you have for picking up my career when I arrive?
FYI, I also have an Economics undergrad degree.

Hello!

I am from Russia. Considering starting learning some certifiate of management accounting.
The question is:
CMA/CFM or CIMA

seems like CIMA is more recognized in the world and it goes deeper into management accounting (15 papers).

What would you suggest for Russian?

Also how much time does it require to pass CMA? And I dont have a degree in accounting (I am Bachelor in economics).

If you have no accounting background, go for CIMA because that’s who its for, non-accountants to become accountants. CMA is aimed at more sophisticated accounting graduates. Plus you’re in Europe, so CIMA is the way to go unfortunately.

hi

I am a bangladeshi graduate and also doing ACCA.If i move to USA than which course will be suitable for me.Can i do CMA or CFM when i will be in USA?Is there any possibility of distance learning of CFM or CMA?

Gomes

Actually, the claim that CMA is aimed at more sophisticated accounting graduates (as opposed to CIMA, which is aimed at non-accountants) is rubish.

The educational requirements for CIMA and CMA candidates are basically the same:
https://www.imanet.org/certification_started_education.asp

A university degree in ANY field is allowed for both; there is no requirement that one must have an accounting backgroudn to do either CIMA or CMA

Get your shit right, Alex.

CIMA in the UK DOES NOT require a university degree. CMA in the US does.

You noobie wannabe accountants who post crap when it doesn’t need to go here.

My facts are straight Commie B, apparently your facts aren’t.

Instead of a University Degree, applicants can opt for the following for a US CMA:

Score in the 50th percentile or higher on either the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT) or the Graduate Record Examination (GRE).

Last time I checked, there are no educational requirements to sit the GMAT, just have to fork out the exam fee.

If you look at both qualifications, they are virtually identical in content. I would argue that CIMA would be tougher as it is much less MCQ-based than the CMA (especially in later Managerial exams; MCQs actually vanish at the strategic level).

If you compare the minimum passing marks between CMA and CIMA, you are comparing apples and oranges. UK system of grading is very different (much more rigorous) from the US system.

I haven’t looked at GMAT requirements for a long time, but to sit for the GMAT, I think you need a bachelor’s degree as GMAT usually applies to masters programs.

In the UK, CIMA doesn’t require anything.

Ultimately, it’s all about money. But there is difference in the applicability and the way the content is delivered. CIMA focuses on memorisation and NOT on application. In my opimion, CMA focuses more on application.

The difference of quality of is reflective and quite obvious in students who come out of both programs. Who wants to compare passing marks.

And I’m not sure on what grounds you make the statement about British grading being much more gigorous, but as someone who has studied in both systems, I can assure that is not the case.

To take the GMAT, all you need is to pay the exam fee, have an official ID that shows your full name and date of birth and be computer literate. You can actually schedule an exam online on a very short notice (next week, for example). No University education is required. As such, one can go for a American CMA without a University education also.

CIMA focuses on pure memorization in the Certificate and Operational Level exams (8 exams). The 3 Managerial exams that come afterwards focus more on application of knowledge, whilst the 3 Strategic Levels and TOPCIMA are pure application and very little memorization.

I made no comment comparing the quality of CMA and CIMA; I mentioned that CIMA is tougher as there are much more exams to do.

However, you have to admit that CIMA is much more recognized globally than the CMA; they do a much better job marketing themselves. CIMA has many partnerships and mutual recognition agreements internationally (especially with Canada and Australia), and is recognized a lot more globally outside of the US. CIMA is recognized as the equivalent of a UK M.Sc. in Finance, and from what I’ve heard (not confirmed) it is now recognized as a Masters in the EU per the Bologna Process. Wonder where CMA is in that regard?

Alex, I believe you are mistaken. Here is what the GMAT is about: http://www.mba.com/mba/thegmat

It is a Graduate Management Admission Test and is commonly used as criteria for entrance into MBA programs. What does that imply? I’m not sure CMA will give you a certificate without a degree, although you may be able to sit for the exams. You might want to have a word with them regarding that before you say they’ll give you the designation without a degree.

Just because there are more exams to do doesn’t make CIMA tougher, it just makes it more tedious and re-establishes the fact that CIMA is targeted at non majors. The fact that CMA says you should have a university degree does means that CMA is not aiming for high school graduates. The fact that they say you qualify if you have GMAT means they expect you to have a degree. The fact that CIMA starts with an introduction to accounting simply suggests that they don’t want you to have a university education. In fact, if you’ve ever been on a managerial or strategic level CIMA course, one of the things they flout is that they are giving you practical education university never will (and that may very well be true in the UK).

I don’t know if CIMA is recognized as a Masters in the EU process, but clearly if you can go from A Levels into an Msc., the system is flawed. Besides, I’m making all my statements from personal experience, and just to make it clear again, CMA requires you to have a university degree before you will get the certification, CIMA doesn’t.

Re the fact that CIMA is more globally recognized, who gives a toss? I sure don’t. If what you are looking for is associating yourself with an institute that markets itself very well and has zero quality – by all means, CIMA is where you want to be. If you at all care to learn about how to apply corporate finance on the job, get a US accounting degree and sit for the CMA exams. You’ll beat a CIMA high school grad any day of the week. I think you ought to look at the goals of an Accounting certification like the CMA or CIMA before measuring which is better.

The UK has about 15 different IT certifications unheard of in the US, yet, they’re still 20 years behind the US in technology. You wonder why? The certifications are recognized globally (formerly known as British colonies, today known as third world countries).

You’re free to say you think CIMA is better (it’s a free country), but let us know skew the facts.

I would disagree with you that CIMA is aimed at high school graduates, as I know plenty of ACMAs and I have yet to meet one who doesn’t have a university education. If there are any, they are clearly in the single digit percentage minority. Also, consider that since there are so many exams, many CIMA students opt to combine their exams with university studies at the same time, BEFORE they finish their degrees. Also take note that CIMA has many partnerships with MBA programs throughout the UK that allow students to finish their Masters program alongside CIMA; hardly a strategy that targets high school students. Does CMA also have such schemes (I honestly don’t know as I have never heard of them)?

If you read the link I had posted before from the IMA site, you will see that a university degree is ONE OF THREE options acceptable, and that this degree can be in any major (an explicit indication that CMA is, like CIMA, also targeting majors and non-majors alike). CMA also accepts the GRE, which is by the way not primarily meant for Business Graduate Study.

And the fact that they say you qualify if you have GMAT does not necessarily mean you should be expected to have a degree; if they expect you to have a degree, why then put GMAT/GRE (which does not require a degree to even sit) as an acceptable education qualification in the first place? The candidate clearly can simply provide CMA with his “expected degree”. This is clearly an indication that someone can become a CMA member in lieu of a college education.

I’ll agree with you that CIMA revision courses do have problems; however those courses are designed and taught by private companies, not by CIMA itself. I have also heard problems about CMA courses.

CIMA is recognized as the equivalent of an M.Sc. in Finance by NARIC UK, itself a member of the Bologna Intergovernmental Process that regulates EU-wide recognition of Undergraduate and Graduate education:
http://www.theaccessgroup.com/news/industry-news/cima-qualification-equated-to-master-degree.aspx

Where do you get the assessment that CIMA has zero quality? I’m not bashing CMA’s quality and praising CIMA as superior; I am stating that both qualifications have exactly the same content and test the exact same thing. I’m just of the opinion that CIMA has a much longer and tougher examination process (less MCQ-based).

Regarding CIMA’s global recognition, it’s very well known not only in commonwealth countries and the emerging markets (East Europe, Africa/Middle East and beginning to pop up in Latin America), but also strong in continental Europe, Australia and Canada. CMA has a presence in about a dozen countries, whilst CIMA’s presence is about 5 times larger. I would argue that strong recognition in emerging markets (what you call third world countries) would be a strong advantage, this is where the biggest economic growth, challenges and opportunities are in the future (and where a lot of US companies are doing business in, and I have seen many US companies in such countries with CIMA programs themselves).

Alex,

My concern with CIMA has never been that they target non accounting majors. It’s that they ask them to come join CIMA as opposed to an undergraduate level program. Any professional institution that claims that it will substitute university education deserves to be told off simply because it is university education that allows most students to mature. What you don’t know about the UK is that university education is generally at an all time low. Quality simple sucks, so people actually choose enroll in professional programs because it is easier to find a job if you’re CIMA qualified, degree or no degree.

Now you also need to understand one more thing about both institutions. Becoming a student at either institute does not mean that you will be able to get the desgination of CMA or ACMA. Passing the exams doesn’t guarantee that either (well, not with the IMA anyway). Just because they allow you to become a member and pay them the money, they will not all you to gain the designation of Certified Management Accountant. The options on the IMA website are written by their webmaster, so perhaps they are not quite as extensive. Have a chat with them and you will know what I am talking about.

You are right in your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs about how GMAT will allow you to become an IMA member, but GMAT alone will NOT allow you to gain the designation of the CMA. Again, note that just passing the exams will not allow you to become a CMA. Like any professional body, they will take your money but that doesn’t mean that the certification becomes open to all members. Hence, on all their corporate communication, there is a difference between IMA and ICMA, the latter being the Institute of Certified Management Accounts.

NARIC is as useless as every second bureaucratic governmental organisation in the UK. The OGC also came up with PRINCE2 in the UK, and every project run on PRINCE2 goes over budget. Just because it’s a certification issued by a professional organisation and approved by the government does not mean it reflects quality or the values of a good academic entity.

My asssessment of CIMA’s zero quality comes from being a CIMA member and an IMA member (at some point in my life). Both qualification do not have the same content, except maybe at a higher level. After all, there’s only so much you can change about corporate finance. Less MCQ based has nothing to do with quality or content; it is simply a testing mechanism. CIMA has virtually lost it’s corporate finance focus simply because it wants to be equal to an MSc or an MBA, with the result that they try and feed you garbage like marketing theory because they EXPECT a good 50% of their students to NOT have had business degrees. Let’s face it, we all studied marketing theory in business school, and I don’t want to sit through it again just so CIMA can get it’s glory. I never faced any such bullshit with the IMA. The promise was management accounting, and that was the focus. No hokey pokey.

In my opinion, global recognition is useless unless you’re looking to show off your credentials. CIMA has a presence because they’ve been around a lot longer, and if they have a presence, so what? That does not mean what they do is better or what they do is right. It just means they spend more money doing it. Now, if what you are saying is that American institutions should follow in the steps of Brits where they ought to spend money on affiliations and marketing and zero on giving back to their students, well, unfortunately that’s not what we want of US education. My US education was priceless; my British curriculums have been useless for me in professional life, even though the CIMA affiliation as its pros from a logistical standpoint.

The million dollar question you have to ask yourself is whether you are after a certification that will get you a job or after one that will give you a tool you need to do your job more effectively. I choose the latter, but then I am self employed, and it is all these qualified accountants that have trouble understanding balance sheets in the UK that sometimes make the work of those of us who actually have worked hard to know what we are doing a little difficult. So, if you want a piece of paper with brand recognition, CIMA is the way.

If you’re an accountant and are interested in gaining the knowledge to become ‘senior’ in that field, getting the CMA designation is definitely more useful.

Another thing to note while we’re on the subject. The AICPA partnered with CIMA a couple of years ago instead of the IMA. I’ll let you guess why, but it had nothing to do with curriculums. I think, the AICPA is trying to save itself from the disaster that awaits it when IASB regulations start becoming global. They’ll need more legitimacy in international markets, and institutions like CIMA will give them that.

So, it’s a matter of I scratch your back and you scratch mine. That’s what institutions spend their time and money on, and they neglect their acamedic motivations.

OK, enough ranting. We’ll have to continue this next weekend as I have a very busy week coming up!

“It’s that they ask them to come join CIMA as opposed to an undergraduate level program. Any professional institution that claims that it will substitute university education deserves to be told off simply because it is university education that allows most students to mature.”

Where do you find this claim in CIMA’s website or communications? If anything, CIMA’s partnerships with Universities and MBA programs show how it views itself not as a substitute, but as a compliment to university studies. Let’s stick to the facts here, shall we? Again, who does CMA partner with in comparison?

“The options on the IMA website are written by their webmaster, so perhaps they are not quite as extensive. Have a chat with them and you will know what I am talking about.”

Perhaps someone should contact the IMA to get their own facts straight in their official site/portal before we can proceed discussing this point? As it currently stands, it is unclear how one can acquire the CMA designation if you claim something, their website claims something else, and we have no idea what the IMA actually wants; whereas with CIMA, it’s crystal clear in their website: pass all exams and get 3 years of relevant work experience certified and reviewed for approval. I would rather go for a qualification with a crystal clear path to the finish line rather than an ambiguous one, to be frank.

“NARIC is as useless as every second bureaucratic governmental organisation in the UK. The OGC also came up with PRINCE2 in the UK, and every project run on PRINCE2 goes over budget. Just because it’s a certification issued by a professional organisation and approved by the government does not mean it reflects quality or the values of a good academic entity.”

And it’s not only NARIC that recognizes/approves of CIMA, but many other bodies around the world (including US multinationals abroad and some in the US) that accept, have strategic alliances or have mutual recognition agreements with CIMA. I guess these other public and private bodies (including US-based ones) are equally as worthless? By the way, how far does CMA go in worldwide recognition in comparison? To be honest, I hear more about CIMA globally than the CMA (and when I’m in the US, I hear CPA most of the time; rarely do I hear CMA). Quite interesting that the most prestigious and popular accounting qualification in the US, the CPA, (which actually has a specific Undergrad Accounting requirement in almost all states in order to qualify) is partnering with CIMA and not with CMA. That really says something about CIMA at a time when US GAAP and IFRS are converging and when Accounting is becoming more of a globalized profession.

“The million dollar question you have to ask yourself is whether you are after a certification that will get you a job or after one that will give you a tool you need to do your job more effectively. I choose the latter, but then I am self employed, and it is all these qualified accountants that have trouble understanding balance sheets in the UK that sometimes make the work of those of us who actually have worked hard to know what we are doing a little difficult.”

Like I said, the tools (subject matter) are the same for both. However, as CIMA is less MCQ-focused than CMA in the 2005 syllabus (and a lot less in the 2010 syllabus, where MCQ will not exist at all in 8 of the 15 exams), it is much tougher and much more comprehensive in testing. MCQ-based questions allow students to eliminate and guess, depriving the marker the opportunity to verify whether the student actually knows what he just answered via written calculations/workings (so as to allocate marks appropriately).

“Now, if what you are saying is that American institutions should follow in the steps of Brits where they ought to spend money on affiliations and marketing and zero on giving back to their students, well, unfortunately that’s not what we want of US education.”

Actually, I believe American institutions are much better marketeers than their British counterparts (i.e., Ivy League, the CFA Institute, the AICPA, all of which are globally recognized in an instant). These are top notch designations in quality too (I certainly hope we are in agreement here); why doesn’t CMA command equivalent brand and prestige also?

Ok Alex, I think now you’re talking about way more than you know. Are you a CIMA member? Have you seen the mailers they send out to you? The facts are the shit they send to members as opposed to what their website says. Unfortunately, you’re striking me as the typical american who believes whatever he is told. Well, that’s too bad because you almost sounded like you were going to make sense up there. I am afraid that you are basing your opinion on CIMA’s marketing materials to prospects. I am basing it on marketing materials to current members and the attitude of qualified CIMA instructors. That, my friend is the fact and the real value that you get. What do you think, that you get what you see on the website? If that’s what you believe, good luck to you. Remember, businesses that HAVE quality and are always busy producing results do not have time to put testimonials on their websites. It’s the ones who have extra time that do.

Perhaps you should give the IMA a call since you seem to have the problem here. You can go for whichever qualification you want. The argument here is never which one you go for, but which prepares you better and makes you a better accountant. Having been through both, I can tell CMAs are almost always better at the accounting game than CIMAs. Now, like I said before, if you’re looking for a brain-dead job anywhere in the world, CIMA is for you because they have a network. It seems like it is, so you might as well go for it. No point in arguing quality here since I doubt that you’ve seen both CIMA and CMA books and like most students you’re looking for a secure career as opposed to learning and getting better at the craft. From my understanding of the IMA when I was actively involved with them, you needed a university degree and had to pass all the exams + 3 years of experience. They did revise the structure after that, so some of it may have changed. Call them if you’ve got an itch mate.

Again, with your NARIC response you are missing the point. Recognition is not the same as quality. If you are after recognition, go for it. The goal of your argument is negligible in my opinion. Remember, the article was written from the standpoint of working professional and not a student. I’m not sure if you go for your degree to learn or for the name. If it’s just for the latter, you most like already have a rich, connected daddy and won’t need the name of an ivy league school to get a job. Unfortunately, a lot of people think this way when it comes to education too. Guess what, that doesn’t make the student who went the ivy league school better than someone who went to a tier 2 school. AICPA partnered with CIMA because money was exchanged both ways and AICPA was after international recognition. Read the word ‘recognition’ again. It’s all about image, not about what you are learning. It says to me that both the institutions are focused on marketing themselves as supposed to improving the skill of accounting.

The subject matter is not necessarily the same. Have you seen the subject matter? Have you sat for both exams? I think you’ve got your assessment of MCQs vs ‘comprehensive’ testing wrong. Managerial level accounting is hardly ever about calculations and workings. Application is key. You need to understand the ramifications of a the numbers in a balance sheet as opposed to drafting one. That’s what differentiates many CMAs from CIMAs. The latter usually fail to read them. I worked with about 15 on my last job. Not many of them could read a cash flow statement.

Your last comment about who markets what better. Ivy league school don’t really market as much as CIMA, PRINCE 2 etc. do in the UK. I’ve lived in the US and I’ve lived in the UK. Your assessment is simply wrong (in my opinion). Not all designations are top notch in quality. There are hundreds of universities in the US that offer excellent education but never make it to top US News listing because they don’t have the money to spend on marketing and brandng. That doesn’t mean they’re not top notch. The same applies to CMA.

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you. Your arguments are not motivated as an accounant, but as someone who is insecure about his potential career and wants to be able to ‘play it safe’. The world does not make progress like that, my friend. You only find brain-dead jobs like that, and your approach in choosing CIMA would be the correct one for that quest.

“Ok Alex, I think now you’re talking about way more than you know. Are you a CIMA member? Have you seen the mailers they send out to you? The facts are the shit they send to members as opposed to what their website says. Unfortunately, you’re striking me as the typical american who believes whatever he is told. Well, that’s too bad because you almost sounded like you were going to make sense up there. I am afraid that you are basing your opinion on CIMA’s marketing materials to prospects. I am basing it on marketing materials to current members and the attitude of qualified CIMA instructors. That, my friend is the fact and the real value that you get. What do you think, that you get what you see on the website? If that’s what you believe, good luck to you. Remember, businesses that HAVE quality and are always busy producing results do not have time to put testimonials on their websites. It’s the ones who have extra time that do.”

I am basing myself on what CIMA has in concrete writting and partnerships. Yes I am a CIMA member, tell me what those mailers concretely say? Let’s stick to facts, shall we?

“Perhaps you should give the IMA a call since you seem to have the problem here. You can go for whichever qualification you want. The argument here is never which one you go for, but which prepares you better and makes you a better accountant. Having been through both, I can tell CMAs are almost always better at the accounting game than CIMAs. Now, like I said before, if you’re looking for a brain-dead job anywhere in the world, CIMA is for you because they have a network. It seems like it is, so you might as well go for it. No point in arguing quality here since I doubt that you’ve seen both CIMA and CMA books and like most students you’re looking for a secure career as opposed to learning and getting better at the craft. From my understanding of the IMA when I was actively involved with them, you needed a university degree and had to pass all the exams + 3 years of experience. They did revise the structure after that, so some of it may have changed. Call them if you’ve got an itch mate.”

I’ve got no itch here; I’m just wondering why has the IMA actually lowered it’s standards by no longer strictly requiring a University Degree (Accounting Majors specifically, which was claimed in this blog posting) and reducing it’s Work Experience down to 2 years (versus the 3 that you just claimed); maybe IMA is having a hard time attracting people from heading down the more prestigious, popular and better recognized CPA? If the CMA is so darn good as you claim, why do 99% of finance & accounting job postings (including management accounting job postings in industry) mention a CPA requirement, but almost never mention CMA?

“Again, with your NARIC response you are missing the point. Recognition is not the same as quality. If you are after recognition, go for it. The goal of your argument is negligible in my opinion. Remember, the article was written from the standpoint of working professional and not a student. I’m not sure if you go for your degree to learn or for the name. If it’s just for the latter, you most like already have a rich, connected daddy and won’t need the name of an ivy league school to get a job. Unfortunately, a lot of people think this way when it comes to education too. Guess what, that doesn’t make the student who went the ivy league school better than someone who went to a tier 2 school. AICPA partnered with CIMA because money was exchanged both ways and AICPA was after international recognition. Read the word ‘recognition’ again. It’s all about image, not about what you are learning. It says to me that both the institutions are focused on marketing themselves as supposed to improving the skill of accounting.”

Overtime quality attracts recognition; quality is one of the best marketing tools around. A qualification or degree that lacks quality will have its recognition plummet over time (we are definitely not seeing this in CIMA’s 90 year history). Now I wanna hear you tell me that you would rather go to a Tier 2 school over an Ivy if you were hypothetically accepted to both. I agree that the quality of an education/qualification is what a student himself makes of it as an individual; the institution can only offer the resources, and Ivy resources are definitely over the top and the most attractive/prestigious in the world. CIMA clearly offers better resources than the CMA with written exams that actually require students to at least prove they know the subject rather than guessing and eliminating and many global partnerships. It is clearly more attractive per its prestige and membership numbers.

“The subject matter is not necessarily the same. Have you seen the subject matter? Have you sat for both exams? I think you’ve got your assessment of MCQs vs ‘comprehensive’ testing wrong. Managerial level accounting is hardly ever about calculations and workings. Application is key. You need to understand the ramifications of a the numbers in a balance sheet as opposed to drafting one. That’s what differentiates many CMAs from CIMAs. The latter usually fail to read them. I worked with about 15 on my last job. Not many of them could read a cash flow statement.”

I would disagree; there is no better way to understand a Cash Flow Statement and Balance Sheet than actually having to manually crunch the numbers, write it out completely so that it can be scrutinized in detail and writing an analysis of it, which CIMA requires but CMA doesn’t. I’m not sure how you can learn application via lucky guessing and elimination.

“Your last comment about who markets what better. Ivy league school don’t really market as much as CIMA, PRINCE 2 etc. do in the UK. I’ve lived in the US and I’ve lived in the UK. Your assessment is simply wrong (in my opinion). Not all designations are top notch in quality. There are hundreds of universities in the US that offer excellent education but never make it to top US News listing because they don’t have the money to spend on marketing and brandng. That doesn’t mean they’re not top notch. The same applies to CMA.”

I would fully disagree that Ivy League schools don’t really market themselves as much as CIMA, I would argue otherwise. Any top brand requires heavy brand management, lest their reputation could plummet. The bigger the brand, the more heavy duty brand management required; as Ivy Leaguers are clearly more prestigious than CIMA, the marketing is also heavier than CIMA. These top notch universities spend millions (potentially billions given their astronomical endowments) on research, grants, intellectual and physical resources, specialized institues, partnerships, libraries, musuems, athletics, etc… to maintain their high-quality tangible and intangible offerings as institutes of higher education and to preserve their top notch names. Sure, they are many quality Tier 2 large universities (and Private Liberal Arts colleges) in the US; but they are no match to Ivy Leaguers who have the resources to attract and compliment the quality.

“I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you. Your arguments are not motivated as an accounant, but as someone who is insecure about his potential career and wants to be able to ‘play it safe’. The world does not make progress like that, my friend. You only find brain-dead jobs like that, and your approach in choosing CIMA would be the correct one for that quest.”

I’m quite secure about my qualification and career actually; I’m not the one aggressively bashing the other more popular qualification as completely worthless.

“I am basing myself on what CIMA has in concrete writting and partnerships. Yes I am a CIMA member, tell me what those mailers concretely say? Let’s stick to facts, shall we?”
Fortunately, I trash all of my CIMA mail now without even opening it. I have however, received emails and mailers where they proclaim they are equal to an MBA. I will forward you one if I come across it again. If you are a US member and if you get the same collateral that we do, I am sure you have seen one before too. In all that you have said, exactly what is fact and what is opinion? Re-count it for me, please.

“I’ve got no itch here; I’m just wondering why has the IMA actually lowered it’s standards by no longer strictly requiring a University Degree (Accounting Majors specifically, which was claimed in this blog posting) and reducing it’s Work Experience down to 2 years (versus the 3 that you just claimed); maybe IMA is having a hard time attracting people from heading down the more prestigious, popular and better recognized CPA? If the CMA is so darn good as you claim, why do 99% of finance & accounting job postings (including management accounting job postings in industry) mention a CPA requirement, but almost never mention CMA?”
You are right, they perhaps have lowered their standards from before. They’ve even reduced one exam for the CMA designation and have eliminated the CFM designation. Perhaps, if I dare, they are trying to capture the CIMA and CPA market share. Not that they’ve made progress. To answer your question, though, most accounting job postings mention CPA as opposed to CMA for the same reason that you are: marketing. In addition, many job postings are made by CPAs who like to promote their own institutes and certifications and many job specs are drawn up by non accountants, who consider the CPA to be the defacto standard, whether the job is for a management accountant or for FP&A or for corporate reporting. HR employees usually draft job specs and we all know where they come from.

“I would disagree; there is no better way to understand a Cash Flow Statement and Balance Sheet than actually having to manually crunch the numbers, write it out completely so that it can be scrutinized in detail and writing an analysis of it, which CIMA requires but CMA doesn’t. I’m not sure how you can learn application via lucky guessing and elimination.”
Wrong again, I would think, Alex. How many companies do you know where those who interpret and make statements based on a Cashflow Statement or Balance sheet are ones who actually crunch the numbers? Probably none. The reason for that is that just because you know how to do debits and credits you’ll never know the impact of either of those on the health of a business. That comes with general business education, and CIMA tries to build this into it because many of their recruits don’t fit the business student background. If you’re going to become a business decision maker, shouldn’t you have to get business education as opposed to accounting education. You can’t tell me that CIMA is more important for a CFO than an MBA is. For a Controller, sure – a CFO, not so much. It helps, but I certainly wouldn’t want a CIMA who hasn’t been to business school making my strategic decisions. As far as writing and analysis is concerned, most mature institutions should and do expect you to have done this at the university level. Therefore, you are posed with application level MCQs to see how well you understand all of that. If you couldn’t get through an accounting degree, you should go through all of it, and probaby go through it in business school as opposed to CIMA. CIMA tries to make up for this by offering the ‘basics’. The only institute who I think does this right is the AICPA. No accounting degree, no accountant. I’m not too sure, but the ICAEW may follow a similar pattern in the US. But both of these institutes, AICPA and ICAEW, are focused on reporting as opposed to management accounting. How the 2 are different is an entirely different debale, so I won’t get into this. If you approach the MCQs by elimination only, I don’t think you’d ever pass unless you got very lucky, which is the same for the CIMA student who memorises questions on the last 2 years of exams. If 3 of the same ones show up, you’re in business.

“Overtime quality attracts recognition; quality is one of the best marketing tools around. A qualification or degree that lacks quality will have its recognition plummet over time (we are definitely not seeing this in CIMA’s 90 year history). Now I wanna hear you tell me that you would rather go to a Tier 2 school over an Ivy if you were hypothetically accepted to both. I agree that the quality of an education/qualification is what a student himself makes of it as an individual; the institution can only offer the resources, and Ivy resources are definitely over the top and the most attractive/prestigious in the world. CIMA clearly offers better resources than the CMA with written exams that actually require students to at least prove they know the subject rather than guessing and eliminating and many global partnerships. It is clearly more attractive per its prestige and membership numbers.”
This was probably true 2 decades ago, but in today’s world, quality is usually considered irrelevant. There’s a reason why the corporate world is all about who you know and what you know, which is, again, one of the primary reasons you are vouching for CIMA, it’s network. And that’s fine. The entire world has become a repository of ‘you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours’ – CIMA is no different. Neither is the IMA, mind you. If they had the chance to, they would do the same thing. It’s just that entered the market a lot later than CIMA or the AICPA.

Re the Ivy league marketing issue, I’m sure they spend money on marketing and provide more resources, but like you say that doesn’t make them better. I agree when you say that CIMA provides more resources, but I think it also provides a lot of garbage. Written exams are not important in proving the subject matter. My primary and secondary education was British, and written exams are part of the culture of memorisation as opposed to application. CIMA’s resources come into play because of their extensive network, which is a result of their marketing spend and almost century of being in existence and British control of their colonies since. The fact is that CIMA starts off with the 1,2,3s of accounting and if it was a certification targeted at accountants or business graduates as opposed to high school students, CIMA would not make you repeat A’Level accounting subject matter, but it does. I did accounting my A’Levels to and I did the basics again in my undergrad and I did them at CIMA. You know what CIMA’s response was – ‘We’re a comprehensive institute and what you learn here you couldn’t have learnt in your degree or in you A’Levels.’ You know what that is right – total rubbish. So, what did CIMA offer me as a student – absolutely nothing. In fact, they charged me money to sit through the same scrap I had been through twice before. Worse yet, a certified CIMA instructor stood in the middle of the classroom and said “If you have an accounting degree, forget it. Whatever you have learnt to this day is not going to be used in your professional life – your education as an accountant by career starts today.” This, in the Introduction to management accounting class. This, from an instructor, who had practiced for 3 years and then only taught all his life. This, I am afraid, is the resume of many CIMA instructors. Those can’t do, teach comes to mind. Come on now, do you really think they’re that good? I’ve seen all of their course materials. Nothing’s more complex than any Advanced Financial Accounting at the MBA or undergraduate level, and that’s a fact. So just because NARIC or others say it’s equivalent to on MSc., it doesn’t make it so. Fact here is that ‘attestation’ is no testament to quality. It is only a testament to deep pockets which can come from hundreds of other sources than quality. I hope you don’t disagree- the last US president was a prime example of that (hint hint- ivy league quality in danger).

“I’m quite secure about my qualification and career actually; I’m not the one aggressively bashing the other more popular qualification as completely worthless.”
I am glad to hear that you are. I’m bashing CIMA because in my opinion that’s what they are- worthless. The aggressive marketing tactics, the mailers, their entire taking on training and accounting is enough to convince me on that. It doesn’t mean you have to agree. Facts are always relative, because I construe CIMA trying to sell you introduction to accounting as their attempt to match a degree and not focus on training high quality accountants. I don’t disagree that it’s a great business move, but that doesn’t make them a prestigious accounting institute or qualification in my opinion. After all, since when is popularity a valid intellectual measure?

“Fortunately, I trash all of my CIMA mail now without even opening it. I have however, received emails and mailers where they proclaim they are equal to an MBA. I will forward you one if I come across it again.”

Let’s see the facts showing that CIMA is equal to an MBA; since you receive so much literature from CIMA, you should have no problem producing examples of them. Until then, your claims can only be regarded as disinformation.

“Perhaps, if I dare, they are trying to capture the CIMA and CPA market share.”

Speculation, however good luck! They have a long way to go! CMA has circa 60,000 members; whilst CIMA has over 70,000 and AICPA has over 330,000. But then again, you criticize CIMA for going down the path of branding/marketing while neglecting quality. Wouldn’t CMA be guilty of the same if it were loosening it’s membership requirements to capture more market share? I guess IMA’s next step would be to send out those imaginary fliers advertising the newest equivalent of an MBA.

“To answer your question, though, most accounting job postings mention CPA as opposed to CMA for the same reason that you are: marketing. In addition, many job postings are made by CPAs who like to promote their own institutes and certifications and many job specs are drawn up by non accountants, who consider the CPA to be the defacto standard, whether the job is for a management accountant or for FP&A or for corporate reporting. HR employees usually draft job specs and we all know where they come from.”

Hmm, looks like the CMA doesn’t really have much of a job market (or future) then if what you say is true! What is the point of getting such a “high-quality” qualification like the CMA if the job market implicitly ignores it by requiring the CPA? Perhaps the CMA is, god forbid, not applicable in the eyes of many finance departments in large american companies? All the more reason not to take the CMA.

“How many companies do you know where those who interpret and make statements based on a Cashflow Statement or Balance sheet are ones who actually crunch the numbers?”

Certainly those key people had their share of number crunching during younger days to intimately understand how these financial statements are built and actually work. At least CIMA members had those days, whereas as for CMA, non-college educated folks who scored a little better than average on the GMAT/GRE are never really grilled in this.

“It helps, but I certainly wouldn’t want a CIMA who hasn’t been to business school making my strategic decisions.”

And makes you think a CMA would have also gone to business school? It’s not even a requirement for them to.

“If you approach the MCQs by elimination only, I don’t think you’d ever pass unless you got very lucky, which is the same for the CIMA student who memorises questions on the last 2 years of exams. If 3 of the same ones show up, you’re in business.”

Elimination sure does make life a lot easier, and if you are stuck, you can always give a wild guess. In CIMA, forget about it. With the new 2010 syllabus, MCQ’s are being wiped out from the Managerial level exams. In the new Operational level exams, they only make up 20 marks. Now let’s take a scenario where an individual is unbelievably lucky; he will be able to eliminate and guess all CMA questions correctly in MCQ exams and pass with flying colors. In CIMA, he fails because he would earn a maximum of 20 marks only at the operational level (provided that those Section A 20 marks are all MCQ, which they are all not). I’m sorry to break the news to you, but dealing with financial issues in the real world actually requires intimately analyzing, solving and communicating solutions that go beyond a standard MCQ-styled A, B, C, D or E.

“This was probably true 2 decades ago, but in today’s world, quality is usually considered irrelevant.”

That’s a pretty strong statement you just made; so I guess the CMA (which you like to boast as a high-quality qualification) is irrelevant in today’s world too? You sure are doing an excellent job convicing a lot of people to do the CMA. Tell you what, I’ll let you reconsider this statement before I go futher .

“Written exams are not important in proving the subject matter.”

And guessing and elimination-prone MCQ exams are?

“This, I am afraid, is the resume of many CIMA instructors.”

CIMA instructors? Is there such a thing? As far as I know and as far as the institute indicates, CIMA does not teach courses for its exams; there are private and independent tuition providers that do so (and a lot of the instructors working for these providers, which are independent of CIMA, are actually not even ACMAs or FCMAs).

“Let’s see the facts showing that CIMA is equal to an MBA; since you receive so much literature from CIMA, you should have no problem producing examples of them. Until then, your claims can only be regarded as disinformation.”
Read what I said, I’ll forward you something next time I get it. And facts? Are you stating facts or reading information from a website. Your believing someone’s marketing materials can only be considered, well naive. While you’re at your factual experience, look at this: http://community.cimaglobal.com/discussions/career-talk/cima-equivalent-masters-degree. I can’t believe your kissing CIMAs ass. How far has it gotten you in the US?

“Speculation, however good luck! They have a long way to go! CMA has circa 60,000 members; whilst CIMA has over 70,000 and AICPA has over 330,000. But then again, you criticize CIMA for going down the path of branding/marketing while neglecting quality. Wouldn’t CMA be guilty of the same if it were loosening it’s membership requirements to capture more market share? I guess IMA’s next step would be to send out those imaginary fliers advertising the newest equivalent of an MBA.”
How long as CIMA been around and how long has CMA been around. Look at the global presence and look at the numbers. It’s all relative. Imaginary fliers? lol. See the link above. You commie, red-herring man! lol.

“Hmm, looks like the CMA doesn’t really have much of a job market (or future) then if what you say is true! What is the point of getting such a “high-quality” qualification like the CMA if the job market implicitly ignores it by requiring the CPA? Perhaps the CMA is, god forbid, not applicable in the eyes of many finance departments in large american companies? All the more reason not to take the CMA.”
So, we’re back to square one. You, like the other dumbos are only looking for a job. Good luck with that slave mentality. You need proper education to run your own business and a safe certification to work for someone else. The choices we make only reflect on who we are, my friend. You can go work for a large American company with any certification. You think they give a toss about your certification. How many US CFOs are CIMAs vs CMAs?

“Certainly those key people had their share of number crunching during younger days to intimately understand how these financial statements are built and actually work. At least CIMA members had those days, whereas as for CMA, non-college educated folks who scored a little better than average on the GMAT/GRE are never really grilled in this.”
Young days? So CIMA is for younger, inexperienced accountants? Sorry, sparky, check with CMA. You website reading monkeys need to do more research. Perhaps you don’t have a college degree. If that’s the case, there’s no need for us to argue about this. You don’t want to call IMA, don’t. CIMA members had which days? Find me a CMA member without a college degree; I don’t think you’ll find one. Then let’s talk about the facts.

“And makes you think a CMA would have also gone to business school? It’s not even a requirement for them to.”
Yes, from what you read on their website. Have you called them to ask or are you afraid of getting that wrong? If you call and ask and they say no they don’t need a college degree or 3-5 years of work experience in accounting whatever of that sort that CIMA requires, I’ll rest my case. You can make a great managerial accountant without business education, lol.

“Elimination sure does make life a lot easier, and if you are stuck, you can always give a wild guess. In CIMA, forget about it. With the new 2010 syllabus, MCQ’s are being wiped out from the Managerial level exams. In the new Operational level exams, they only make up 20 marks. Now let’s take a scenario where an individual is unbelievably lucky; he will be able to eliminate and guess all CMA questions correctly in MCQ exams and pass with flying colors. In CIMA, he fails because he would earn a maximum of 20 marks only at the operational level (provided that those Section A 20 marks are all MCQ, which they are all not). I’m sorry to break the news to you, but dealing with financial issues in the real world actually requires intimately analyzing, solving and communicating solutions that go beyond a standard MCQ-styled A, B, C, D or E.”
There’s no intimate analysis in CIMA. I sat for all the exams. In any real world situation, there is no right and answer decisions are always based on variables and speculation. Your argument for really lucky is simply an immature one, so it’s not worth a discussion. Memorisation is not the way to succeed on exams. If someone’s lucky enough to pass with total guesswork, perhaps he’s worth having on your financial team anyway.

“That’s a pretty strong statement you just made; so I guess the CMA (which you like to boast as a high-quality qualification) is irrelevant in today’s world too? You sure are doing an excellent job convicing a lot of people to do the CMA. Tell you what, I’ll let you reconsider this statement before I go futher .”
Perhaps you haven’t read the rest of the blog. it’s full of strong statements. How would you know about quality in the CMA? Did you sit for the exam? Or are you basing this on your imaginary facts? You’ll go further with what that you’re an uninformed, secure-job hunting insecure accountant who sat for CIMA exams in the US wants to defend his qualification? Drink a coke or something.

“And guessing and elimination-prone MCQ exams are?”
Maybe that is how you plan on passing your exams. Good luck. People like you drop the standard of education. Unfortunately, too many of you around.

“CIMA instructors? Is there such a thing? As far as I know and as far as the institute indicates, CIMA does not teach courses for its exams; there are private and independent tuition providers that do so (and a lot of the instructors working for these providers, which are independent of CIMA, are actually not even ACMAs or FCMAs).”

Welcome to the UK. Have you ever see the CIMA magazine? Do you know who CIMA examiners are? Your facts say private tuition providers to so. OOH. Due diligence changes facts. Look at some of the examiners and trace them back 2 years and see where they taught – at the largest tuition providers. It’s all dumb and dumber – you scratch my back and I scratch yours. And you’re scratching theirs – why, because they gave you a certification. Enjoy it while it lasts and spend your time improving your accounting rather than defending your certification. Instructors are independent of CIMA? LOL. As you say, half of them aren’t even accountants themselves, and they grade the papers. Go figure.

I am astonished to read about the way the writer of the above article and his supporters seem to suggest that because CIMA admits non- bachelors to its program then the CIMA brand is of little or low quality.
The 21st century accountant should not even dream of compartmentalizing itself by focusing on only accounting subjects. One needs to be knowledgeable in a broad spectrum of subjects including management,IT, ethics, law and accounting subjects to realy make a desire impact. I have compared both CIMA and CMA programs and CIMA looks superior. Afterall, being a successful management accountant goes beyond one’s abilty to prepare a balance sheet. Remember with the presence of the computer IT professionals have usurped that responsibility. I for one, I strongly believe that narrowing one’s expertise to only accounting subjects in order to succeed in this complex environment is LAUGHABLE to say the least. Moreover,the argument that because some business subjects have already been offered at the undergraduate level, they are no longer needed at the professional level is spurious.
One should remember that the requirements needed to answer One plus One question at a primary level will be different at the degree level but the the question could be relevant at both levels.Let me offer a simple advise to the so call degree holders who surrounds themselves with superior air of importance that there are many people with lesser degrees like Advanced level qualification who have not had the opportunity to advance their education but are better and So please shut that proud and long beak of yours.

Hi Eric,

Now there’s no need to get all emotionally wound up. No one ever stated that having a degree made someone superior to someone who didn’t have a degree. That would be like stating that someone with an accounting certification would make a better CFO than someone without. That’s rubbish and we all know it.

However, I have to disagree with your argument about ‘levels’. Since you have just done some research around CIMA as opposed to sitting for the exam or studying the books, their level is no superior to the average US degree, and although this may very well be a matter of opinion, well, I have one and that’s tough.

Note having a degree means you would never narrow your expertise to accounting subjects only. That is the WHOLE point of having a degree (if you read any of the comments above). I don’t mean to be bashful to anyone who doesn’t have a degree, but I do consider the reactions that those who don’t have one put up in defence of the gospel that CIMA and it’s coursework is.

No one has a proud and long beak, so watch what you say here. You’re free to express your opinion, but just because you’re worried about CIMA getting a bashing for having what I consider simply the wrong intent, doesn’t mean you ask others to not voice their opinion. If you think CIMA is better, by all means, go for it. Who’s stopping you? If you know people who have or had a degree, you would never make a statement about the ‘broad spectrum of education.’ So, let me put it nicely: get your shit right.

Hi Commie B,
I have read most of your earlier postings which cast serious doubts on the competence of a CIMA graduate but you seem to be suggesting in your preceding post that you are bashing CIMA and not its members. In the first place let me ask you, what is CIMA without its members?. CIMA practically means nothing without its members and to come out to write about things you seem to be ignorant about is insulting not only to the body but to its members. I have travelled accross the world and you are the only one who preaches rubbish about CIMA.

CIMA exams are conducted at Pace university in New York. Just call the school and ask them about CIMA and they will educate you to shape your thoughts. I have been there and I know instructors who hold PHDs compare it to the best of US accoutancy education the CPA and not CMA.

To compare CIMA to a degree in the US no matter its shape is like comparing flu to cancer. And by that comparism I am avoiding you and your website for good because you know what I got better things doing than feeding my soul with nonsense

Good day

To

Hi Eric,

Way to go behaving like an adult. Just because you think I am ignorant about CIMA doesn’t make you or the people at Pace University in New York an authority on CIMA. People protect their jobs, which is why they protect in the institutions they are affiliated with. No one does it because it’s the right thing to do, so I would take a good look at my own character before calling others ignorant on the topic.

Now, travelling across the world does not make you an authority on any topic. Living in other countries does, but just because you visit a country doesn’t mean you know anything about it. It’s typical of Americans, but that’s okay; it’s understood.

I’m not preaching rubbish about CIMA. I simply expressed my opinion based on what I saw. Is that a crime simply because it reflects badly on an institute you chose to be affiliated with? For the record, it is you who made the comparison between a degree holder and a CIMA ‘graduate’, not me. Therefore, your accusation that I am comparing it to a US degree is total imagination and crap. Not only that, CIMA does the comparison. You, of course, would know if you ever spoke to someone at CIMA rather than Pace University of New York. And by the way, do they hold those exams there for free? Oh wait, I guess not.

And before you and all your ‘accounting’ friends go on talking about the CPA and CMA and CIMA and CA, do your research. Do you people have any idea what the difference is between each certification. Do you even know what each one is meant for.

You avoid this website, because I think that will do your bloated CIMA ego good. Truth, well, truth with my harsh opinion is probably not for the faint of heart, especially those with CIMA certifications. For people like you, ignorance is a bliss. Keep it that way or your tiny world may just fall apart.

hi all.its glaring.cima and cma are finance qualifications that’s not towing the strict audit/accounting path like the ca/cpa and as such should be similar in the long run comparing the curriculums of both institute .The cima(uk)offers a more detailed and rigorous path simply because most of the papers are taught at graduate level even in the us and one is expected to analyse,evaluate options ane much more.while the cma has 2 part exam equally detailed but not more rigorous and it’s MCHQ’S.check out their blogs where there students have been reacting on the recent change to the 2 part exams.Then on the other hand cma still has not found it’s foot even in the us.if certifications are mentioned in the us,it’s always…CFA,CPA EVEN CFP.whatever happened to the CMA.simply put i think the new exam format is watery compared to CIMA.

Hi all,I am a Chartered Accountant from India and worked for 3.5 years there.I came to the US and completed my CPA as well.I have my EAD(work permit) too..but I have not been able to find a job for the last one year..I am really stuck..I have reviewed my resume with sources..and they all find it good..but I am not able to understand whats with the job…I dont know which industry and position to target for..please help

CMA is better than CIMA.

US and UK educations are totally different in approach.

Hi,

I am an undergraduate in the US and currently studying for my CPA. I am planning to return to my country Bangladesh. I know that they highly recognize CA certification but I am not sure what their stand is on US CPA. Could you please tell me what you know about it?

Thanks,
Farah

hello
presently i am pursuing acca. i am from india.i am commerce graduate as well. i have more than two experience in the auding and accounting field.i am planning to study CMA in CMA.
is there any need to write gmat or gre for studing CMA in US?

Hi, Question on the U.S. CPA
I have a business degree from a U.S. University and have taken a few accounting courses as part of my BSc, am considering doing my CPA under the state of Delaware after completing a few online accounting courses from Post University to have enough accounting credits to take the CPA exam. Delaware does not have the 150 credit requirement to take the CPA exam. I have contacted the ACCA and ICAEW in UK but both are offering a few exemptions since my degree is from a U.S. university meaning I have to start from the basic exams and waste my time if i attempt to take the ACCA or ICAEW.

My goal is to go back home to Ghana in West Africa in about 2 yrs. and work for an audit firm for which i have already interned-audit trainee for about 3 years after graduating. The U.S. CPA, ACCA and ICAEW is highly recognized in Ghana. Does anyone know much about the U.S. States offering the CPA title with a permit to practice, even though the candidate will be auditing outside the US and has gained work experience outside the U.S.? Thanks for the feedback.

To the original psoter:

Good job on posting a well balanced article (sarcasm).

Please, any university level student could read what you’ve written and sense the irrevocable slant you have towards your American roots.

In Canada, CMA is literally the easiest accounting designation you can get. CA is the way to go.

But to give that much credit to CMA and to denounce CIMA of its rightful place (on world stage) is nonsense.

Stop spreading hate Commie B, CMA is, indeed, more well known in Canada than CIMA, but on world stage, you need to reconsider your thoughts. Seriously.

Oh and, look look, here now 2010.

US and Canadian GAAP moving towards British IFRS standards.

Your post is equivellent to American hubris at its best. Irony.

Sad part is I’m not American. Never was. So you’ve got it all wrong.

Hi’

I am working for an MNC in dubai as an accountant. My Qualification is MBA Finance. One of my friend has suggested me to go for CPA uk (www.acpa.org.uk.) kindly advise me about this. it is not possible for me to go for CPA US.

regards

Hi,

I just moved to UK and got 2years degree from US.
im thinking which countries, UK or US , should i go.
if i take some class at US’ one, i can continue my education as an online course less than 2years, but if i cannot work in UK
using the qualification in US’ degree? if so,i will give up to take the classes from US. I need to take a course from UK’s university. it’s firstest way to get a job.on the other hands, i need to go to ESL first and then, take a fondation course for one year after that i could go to 3years university in UK. so, it’s too long to study i have to. My thoughout is if it possible, i prefer to take some classes from US’s university as the online course to take some classes in UK.
Please comment and advice me.

Thank you

Yoko
P

Hi Yoko,

I’m not too familiar with distance education in the UK. Given their technology infrastructure, I’m not sue what they support. As far as taking US courses that make you eligible for UK work – that’s not going to happen at university level. If you want to do accounting, sit for UK exams in the US – that you can do. Try ACCA in the US – think they have a presence. If i was you, I’d stay in the US – but what you’re aiming for isn’t exactly too clear.

Is MNC a multi national company?

If you can’t do CPA in the US, I would check if CPA UK is affiliated and authorised by the AICPA in the US. If it is, it should be as good as the CPA in the UK. If it’s not, I’d just got the plain old CA or ACA designation. You can get that at ICAP in Pakistan or the ICAEW in the UK – it’s the same thing.

Can Someone help me,I possess HND Accounting with the following accounting certification,CMA Australia,CFC Canada,CIAT Canada and Chartered Mcsi (CISI UK)and 7 yrs working experience in accounting field wanted to migrate to Canada is my certification accepted for Job in Canada and what suitable certification will grant me exemption in Canada.

is getting the CMA australian qualification ok?how is it if you are going to compare CMA australia with CIMA UK or CMA US?

How recognized is CMA australia in the international market?

does anybody here know about CMA australia?how is it compared to CIMA UK or CMA US?

I am a Cameroonian,studying the CPA program under the ICPAK.Can my certificate be recognised in the US and worldwide?

Please Sir can you tell me more about CMA Australia and SPAC-Society of professional accountant Canada if there are ok in the labour market.

I want to know if society of professional accountant-SPAC canada has gained recognation in canada and also want to know the latest development inregards to mutual of understanding between CMA Australia & Association of Computer Society Australia and the intention of ICMA Australia planning to join IFAC.Thank you for your quick response.

Ibrahim, What do you want an exemption from? You already have like 2 Canadian and 1 UK certifications!

Leo, how is it is quite an odd question, but as far as recognition goes, generally when you cross borders with certifications that are local, you will only get exemptions at the basic level for more international designations like ACCA and CIMA and CMA US etc.

Sarah, interesting. CPAs in Kenya. It’s a statutory body, so it may be recognized. Does Kenya have a separate CA or ACA designation issued by a Chartered Accountants’ institute too (like other former British colonies have)? If so, that may be the ‘internationally’ recognized certificate. If not, this might do the trick.

Ibrahim, as for whether CMA Australia and SPAC – I suggest you write to whoever you want extensions from as I really have no idea.

You second question about CMA Australia and the Computer Society and ICMA joining IFAC (which I hadn’t heard of until this post) is really something you’ll have to ask them about too. I am afraid I really am not upto date with Canadian or Australian accounting bodies or certifications.

Well, from what i have heard, CMA australia has no mutual recognition with other management accounting bodies likw CMA US and CIMA UK, but the australian CMA program is really good as you can lots of insights from it.

is it possible to study either CPAA or ICAA program in dubai??

I’m not sure about the ICAA, but you can definitely sit for the Australian CPA in Dubai. See http://www.cpaaustralia.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/cpa-site/hs.xsl/pd-cpa-programs-professional-level-exam-locations.html

I want to know how really good is Australian CMA compare to CMA Canada.

Ibrahim, that’s in invalid question. It’s like asking if you prefer steak over chicken or mutton or lamb. There is no right answer, until we look at a particular scenario.

If you’re in Australia the Australian CMA should be the one you do. If in Canada, you should go for the Canadian one. Quality, which is irrelevant for job seeking, may be a factor based on which one can pass judgement (a half ass one, mind you), but I haven’t seen the curriculum for either!

Hi,
i have Master degree in Accounting and 20 years experience in accounting and near five years in marketing.
now i am student of CIMA and want to immigrate to Canada.
my question is:
if CIMA help me to find job in Canada or better to change
my study in another chartered institute in Canda?
thanks
Massy

HI.I am an A level student in Pakistan and I am very confused in choosing between doing CA or CPA from USA. Please can anyone give me some advise. If I do CPA I may settle there but if CA, I may return to Pakistan as it is very recognized. But what I have learned after so much research is that many people do CPA first and then CA over it. Should I also do likewise or simply….?
I also wanted to know what should I be required for my license on doing CPA from US. PLEASE help me choose my career fast..
THANK YOU

@Massy – perhaps. See http://www.cimacanada.org/main.jsp

@Ali Raza – Doing both is just, IMHO, stupid. If you want to settle in the US, do your CPA, but I wouldn’t advise that if you’re not already a US citizen. If you have to be back in Pakistan, CA is the only way to go. For the CPA, you will need to work under an existing CPA for a couple of years in addition to meeting the educational requirements.

Hi,

I have done my MBA in banking & finance but i want to do one
certificate to increase my knowledge and skills to pass easily CFA at
first attempt as I am form Pakistan & here education standard is low as compare to US or Europ.
Is there any financial certificate equal in all aspect to CFA and is acceptable in other countries like CFA? 

CFA is CFA – it’s not an accounting certificate, so accounting certificates will not help you to pass the CFA

Surely you jest !

An accounting “certificate”, or more properly an accounting designation, will not help one pass the CFA examinations ?

Other than having a degree in a relevant subject such as economics, commerce or finance, an accounting designation would, in my opinion, be highly desirable indeed.

As to obtaining an MBA, remember that in 99% of cases it is better known as “Master of Bugger All”, a worthless degree mill credential churned out with the sole intention of luring those who have money to spend.

Surely you jest !

An accounting “certificate”, or more properly an accounting designation, will not help one pass the CFA examinations ?

Other than having a degree in a relevant subject such as economics, commerce or finance, an accounting designation would, in my opinion, be highly desirable indeed.

As to obtaining an MBA, remember that in 99% of cases it is better known as “Master of Bugger All”, a worthless degree mill credential churned out with the sole intention of luring those who have money to spend.

Surely you jest !

An accounting “certificate”, or more properly an accounting designation, will not help one pass the CFA examinations ?

Other than having a degree in a relevant subject such as economics, commerce or finance, an accounting designation would, in my opinion, be highly desirable indeed.

As to obtaining an MBA, remember that in 99% of cases it is better known as “Master of Bugger All”, a worthless degree mill credential churned out with the sole intention of luring those who have money to spend.

Surely you jest !

An accounting “certificate”, or more properly an accounting designation, will not help one pass the CFA examinations ?

Other than having a degree in a relevant subject such as economics, commerce or finance, an accounting designation would, in my opinion, be highly desirable indeed.

As to obtaining an MBA, remember that in 99% of cases it is better known as “Master of Bugger All”, a worthless degree mill credential churned out with the sole intention of luring those who have money to spend.

You should be aware of the growing number of Canadian CAs who also obtain a CPA from one of the states in the US. For those Canadian accounting practitioners with cross border business and client arrangements the dual credentials are proving to be quite valuable indeed.

Hey AtlanticMan,

Thanks for the feedback. I am sure an accounting designation would be desirable – relevant, perhaps not so much.

I don’t think the question was aimed at desirability or marketability, but rather at skillset to pass the exam and apply the knowledge therein.

Accounting certificates generally only train you (if at all) to measure and report financial wealth according to statute and GAAP – CFA has to be more along the lines of analysis that helps you create that wealth. The 2 are vastly different. Sure, knowing how to count will be required when you’re going to develop differential equations, but it is practically a negligible part of differential calculus.

Thanks for the info, AtlantlicMan. I have no doubt the CA CPA combination will be of great use in  Canada – it can be in the UK too if you work for a larger American Corporate (all the large ones are eventually American).

In Pakistan, though – the CPA doesn’t carry much value – except by its nature of being American, and even that claim alone has lost popularity in recent years.

SPAC has almost no recognition in Canada besides being able to sign as a passport as guarantor. The Canadian accounting designations will merge and this will make SPAC almost invisible. 
ICMA Australia has decided not join IFAC. I regret this decision and for this reason decided not to continue my memberhsip with them.
ICMA claims that they will negotiate MRAs with CIMA, CMA Canada, etc but I really doubt this can be possible without IFAC’s membership.
I would recommend looking at IPA in Australia, they have IFAC’s membership and they have some nice MRAs with India and South Africa. They seem to be moving in the right direction and their program is also management oriented.

CMA Australia has no goverment recognition in Australia unlike CMA Canada or CIMA UK. They compare more to the CMA US as they are meant to be certifications for accountants without any formal government recognition (e.g. CPA).
The CMA Australia only consists in two exams in management accounting after degree, this is nothing compared with the 8-13 papers with CIMA or the brutal entrance exam with CMA Canada or CPA US. CMA Australia also offers 2 weeks seminars that can allow you exempt exams.

CMA Australia is meant to be an extra certification for CPA, ACCAs, etc but not really meant to be a full fledge accounting designation like CIMA or CPA.

CMA Australia is not a member of IFAC and not recognized by the government.Which basically means that is just a private certification like CFE, CIA, etc without much recognition besides showing some knowledge in management accounting

Not much, I was a member of CMA Australia and nobody in industry or government accepted it. However, I work in Canada so this might not be the best place to use the certification.

Not point of comparison. Can you compare a two week seminar with a brutal set of 8 -12 exams? Not really, CMA requires only a two week seminar while CIMA a set of exams. CMA US also requires a set of exams that cannot be exempted by taking a two week seminar.

CMA Australia is a private organization with no government recognition. Their paper is as good as printing your own CMA from your computer. It just states that you completed a two week seminar and now you are certified management accountants.

Immigration Australia does not recognize CMAs nor the other three recognized Accounting bodies ICCA, CPA and IPA. Anything besides these 3 bodies is just paper.

CFC Canada, CIAT Canada, CMA Australia are useless certifications as they come from non recognized bodies. However, your degree in accounting is the only that matters to immigration. However, if you immigrate to Canada, you would need to start from scratch as none of your credentials come from an IFAC member body.

CMA Australia is just a two week seminar so it doesn’t hurt but nothing compared to a full fledge designation like CPA Australia that requires the completion of 13 exams. Same thing ACCA or CIMA.

SPAC is non designated body in Canada, which means that you can use it to call yourself accountant but it is not recognized by provincial governments as a full fledge designation. Most SPAC members are self employed accountants that do not work in public accounting and just need a label to add to their business cards. However, if you put this in your resume, no employer would know what SPAC is.

CPA Uk is not recognized in the UK as a qualifying body. They also don’t have IFAC membership. They are as good as printing your own certificate. They rely on the recognized CPA US title but they don’t have any authority. They have faced few legal battles because of this but still in business. I wouldn’t give them two cents.

Hi,
I was told that us accounting degrees are not really recognized in countries such as Singapore,Australia , and Malaysia. So after I’ve obtained my degree in accounting in university in US, how can I proceed to take my professional qualifications such a’s ACCA, CA and so on?
The main question is, will I be allowed to sit for these exams? And lastly, will I be able to get a job if I were to opt for working in oher countries other than US itself?

CIMA prepares a toddler to be accountant with their long drawn useless study whereas CMA, US is more matured qualification suited for those who serious about making career in accounting. It has orientation towards real-life problem solving. That’s why it has 72% marks for passing. CIMA is lengthy and easier to pass.

You sign up for the membership at the ACCA or ICAEW if you want to sit for their exams. You can sit for their exams – what degree you have is rather irrelevant with most European Accounting Institutions.

If you have these certificates, you can find a job in most countries outside the US.

Hi,

I’ve just obtain my ACCA certificate in Singapore but I will be moving to Korea shortly.
My certificate is not recognized there, do you know what qualification can I obtain to be a CPA there?

Please could you tell me what the American conversion is for financial accounting modules as I’ve just moved to America and I don’t seem to be googling the right things! Thanks